Session Start: Tue Feb 27 14:39:23 2001
[14:39] *** Now talking in #topniche
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[14:39] -HelpBot- Our url: http://www.weboverdrive.com/
[14:39] *** channel stats for #topniche:   +o: 1   -o: 2   +v: 0   total: 3
[14:40] -> *HelpBot* op #topniche helpone
[14:40] *** HelpBot sets mode +o @FurBall
[14:40] *** FurBall sets mode +o @TDavid
[14:40] *** @FurBall changed topic to "Perl/CGI Week 3 Chat"
[14:40] *** @FurBall changed topic to "Perl/CGI Week 3 Chat starts at 3 PM Eastern"
[14:44] *** Itchy (itchmaster@24.70.215.1O46=) joined #topniche
[14:44] <Itchy> cool 2 at once that might screw me up hehe
[14:45] <FurBall> :-)
[14:45] <FurBall> Itchy, I see your bestweek3 script...
[14:45] <FurBall> nice!!! Well commented!!!
[14:46] <Itchy> Thank you was having troubles this morning
[14:46] <FurBall> I saw that. :-)
[14:46] <Itchy> lol
[14:47] <Itchy> Not to bad for a guy that never coded anything but html in his life tell I heard of your guy's school
[14:47] <FurBall> :-) See.. it's not THAT difficult! :-)
[14:47] <FurBall> And you handled the advanced statements QUITE well!!!
[14:47] <@TDavid> 11 messages
[14:47] <@TDavid> 0.0 rating
[14:47] <@TDavid> Feb-27-01 02:28 PM
[14:47] <FurBall> ala: $good= "good Morning" if ($hour < 12);
[14:48] <@TDavid> i still wonder what that rating this is about! hehe
[14:48] <FurBall> well.. that rating is now 10.0. :-)
[14:48] <FurBall> To be honest, I have NO idea... :-)
[14:48] <Itchy> thanks was wondering about that but it worked hehe
[14:48] <FurBall> but I THINK if you were running a more "public" BBS, it would apply. :-)
[14:48] <Itchy> still need to see if the good evening works tonight
[14:49] <FurBall> :-)
[14:50] <@TDavid> i keep thinking of that black sabbath zero the hero lol
[14:50] <@TDavid> the song, that is :)
[14:50] <FurBall> LOL
[14:50] <Itchy> good song
[14:50] <@TDavid> itchy it is exciting to see you getting into the code :)) that's what this is all about
[14:51] <@TDavid> programming on the surface seems to be much more complex than it truly is :)
[14:51] <Itchy> Yup I never was much intrested in anything before but i see what a person can do and it lite a fire in me :-)
[14:51] <FurBall> ALRIGHT!! That's why we're here and doing this. :-)
[14:52] *** FurBall sets mode +v +Itchy
[14:52] <+Itchy> LOL and i was thinking the kind of money i person could make with good scripts hehe
[14:52] <FurBall> :-) Well.. there is support for those scripts though.. :-)
[14:52] <@TDavid> automate those human tasks, that's the key :)
[14:53] <+Itchy> Yup thats the key I think
[14:53] <@TDavid> writing scripts to distribute for the public is an entirely different animal
[14:53] <FurBall> Absolutely!
[14:53] <+Itchy> Well I was looking at your $500 link script and thought if he sells that 10 times thats $5000
[14:53] <FurBall> Oh Tdavid, should this chat be logged?
[14:54] <FurBall> And does that log get posted somewhere?
[14:54] <@TDavid> yes, you send to me and I post at script school :)
[14:54] <+Itchy> Yup we need to beable to look back heheh
[14:55] <FurBall> K.. consider it logged. :-)
[14:55] <FurBall> umm.. you want or not want timestamps for each line?
[14:55] <@TDavid> yeah timestamps are good
[14:55] <FurBall> Good. :-)
[14:55] <@TDavid> gives us a sense of timing lol
[14:55] <FurBall> Consider em there. :-)
[14:55] *** MadamZ (java@208.8.133.GD869=) joined #topniche
[14:55] <@TDavid> welcome madamz
[14:55] <FurBall> Ahh.. Kewll.. welcome MadamZ
[14:55] <+Itchy> helps people remmeber what time to get here lol
[14:55] <+Itchy> hi MadamZ hehe
[14:56] <MadamZ> ok
[14:56] *** TDavid sets mode +v +MadamZ
[14:56] <+MadamZ> very funny folks:)
[14:56] <+MadamZ> thanks Furball
[14:56] <FurBall> Yw. :-)
[14:58] <@TDavid> somebody type the word "cookie"
[14:58] <FurBall> cookie
[14:59] <+Itchy> cookie
[14:59] <+Itchy> "cookie"
[14:59] <@TDavid> hehe
[14:59] <@TDavid> oops try again
[14:59] <+Itchy> cookie
[14:59] * @TDavid gives Itchy a cookie :)
[14:59] <+Itchy> thanks lunch
[15:00] <@TDavid> hehe got to eat i guess
[15:00] <FurBall> :-)
[15:00] <@TDavid> since we are talking today about if logic that is a perfect example
[15:00] <FurBall> Ok.. according to my clock, it's 3 PM today...
[15:00] <@TDavid> you type "cookie" and then voila! IRC spits out the cookie message
[15:00] <+Itchy> MadamZ I joined your site today and never got a password ;-(
[15:01] <+Itchy> cookie voila!
[15:01] * @TDavid gives Itchy a cookie :)
[15:01] <+MadamZ> Oh my are you the cybecop
[15:01] <+Itchy> pornocop yup shhhhhhhhhh
[15:01] <+MadamZ> lol
[15:01] <+Itchy> lol
[15:01] <+MadamZ> did you confirm yet
[15:01] <FurBall> Ok... shall we get this chat started here? :-)
[15:01] <@TDavid> now what if we want to only give itchy a chocolate chip cookie and everybody else an oatmeal cookie
[15:01] <+Itchy> never got anything in my e-mail ;-(
[15:02] <@TDavid> already started I thought :)
[15:02] <+MadamZ> hummm
[15:02] <FurBall> LOL
[15:02] <+MadamZ> ok will do
[15:03] <+Itchy> opps it's there now :-)
[15:03] <@TDavid> if($name eq "itchy") { $cookie = 'chocolate chip'; } else { $cookie = 'oatmeal'; }
[15:03] <@TDavid> now UNIX is casE SensItive so that wouldn't match itchy's nick
[15:03] <@TDavid> if($name eq "Itchy") { $cookie = 'chocolate chip'; } else { $cookie = 'oatmeal'; }
[15:04] <@TDavid> note the difference, very important when using an absolute comparsion operator
[15:04] *** spaceman (java@64.228.106.zO96=) joined #topniche
[15:04] <FurBall> also, note that since he is testing a string, he is using the eq operator.
[15:04] <FurBall> welcome Spaceman
[15:04] *** FurBall sets mode +v +spaceman
[15:04] <+spaceman> hi
[15:04] <@TDavid> if you want to do case insensitive comparisons you would use something called a regular expressions OR you would need to convert the string to all lowercase
[15:05] <@TDavid> before testing it
[15:05] <FurBall> We will be getting into regular expressions later on around week 5.
[15:05] <@TDavid> now what if we want to give spaceman a fudge brownie, give itchy a chocolate chip cookie and everybody else an oatmeal cookie?
[15:06] <FurBall> (stealing my line Tdavid. :-))
[15:06] <+spaceman> ummm brownie
[15:06] <@TDavid> just don't steal my cookie! :)
[15:06] <FurBall> LOL
[15:06] <+Itchy> elsif?
[15:06] <FurBall> any ideas?
[15:06] <FurBall> In 1 itchy!
[15:06] <@TDavid> what would be the code, Itchy, exactly
[15:07] <+Itchy> min
[15:07] <+spaceman> i read in TNB there was a CGI chat here did i miss it?
[15:07] <FurBall> nope..
[15:07] <FurBall> it's starting right now..
[15:07] <@TDavid> this is it, spaceman :)
[15:07] <+spaceman> cool
[15:07] <@TDavid> if($name eq "Itchy") { $cookie = 'chocolate chip'; } else { $cookie = 'oatmeal'; }
[15:07] <FurBall> we're going over logic.
[15:07] <FurBall> in perl.
[15:07] *** Slave (java@24.149.1.E1684=) joined #topniche
[15:08] <@TDavid> that is the perl CGI code to test for if the name equals Itchy then give him a chocolate chip cookie and give everybody else an oatmeal cookie
[15:08] *** Slave (java@24.149.1.E1684=) quit (QUIT: User exited)
[15:08] <FurBall> welcome slave
[15:08] <@TDavid> slave was enslaved by another channel it seems :)
[15:09] <+Itchy> elsif($name eq "spaceman") {cookie = 'fudge brownie}
[15:09] * @TDavid gives Itchy a cookie :)
[15:09] <FurBall> LOL.. guess so...
[15:09] *** spaceman_ (spaceman_1@64.228.106.Ya18=) joined #topniche
[15:09] <FurBall> where does that elsif go in the code itchy?
[15:09] *** +spaceman (java@64.228.106.zO96=) left #topniche
[15:09] *** FurBall sets mode +v +spaceman_
[15:09] <+Itchy> after the else oatmeal ?
[15:10] <FurBall> No. If it did, then it would never be gotten to.
[15:10] <FurBall> It would find the else first and always run that code.
[15:10] <+Itchy> oooo after if
[15:10] <@TDavid> imagine the if as the beginning of a train and the else as the caboose
[15:10] <FurBall> Perfect example! :-)
[15:10] <@TDavid> er locomotive :)
[15:11] <@TDavid> everything inbetween are the elsifs
[15:11] <FurBall> the freight cars are the elsifs. :-)
[15:11] <+Itchy> well that makes more sense to me
[15:11] <@TDavid> which they would have spelled it "elseif" .. so that is an error to watch out for
[15:11] <@TDavid> in php it is spelled that way
[15:11] <+MadamZ> So what does the elsif do what is its function
[15:11] <@TDavid> er, I WISH, not "which" as stated above
[15:11] <@TDavid> to allow you more options in the comparison
[15:12] <FurBall> Let's take the example again:
[15:12] <@TDavid> if($name eq "Itchy") { $cookie = 'chocolate chip'; } else { $cookie = 'oatmeal'; }
[15:12] *** Teq (java@206.42.161.h38=) joined #topniche
[15:12] <+MadamZ> ok
[15:12] <@TDavid> you only have 2 options there ... but we need to give spacman a "fudge brownie"
[15:12] <Teq> Hi guys
[15:13] <FurBall> if ($name eq "itchy") { $cookie = 'chocolate chip';} elsif ($name eq "spaceman"} { $cookie = 'fudge brownie'; } else {$cookie = 'oatmeal';}
[15:13] *** FurBall sets mode +v +Teq
[15:13] <@TDavid> hi teq, welcome to the perl cgi week #3 course workshop
[15:13] <FurBall> hi teq!
[15:13] <FurBall> now, with this code, you have 3 options...
[15:13] <FurBall> IF you are itchy, you get a chocolate chip cookie....
[15:13] <FurBall> else IF you are spaceman, you get a fudge brownie,
[15:13] <FurBall> otherwise you get an oatmeal cookie.
[15:14] <@TDavid> everyone understand this? questions?
[15:14] <@TDavid> it is easy to confuse assignment and comparison operators
[15:15] <@TDavid> this is assignment: = this is comparison: == (equal to number) eq (equal to string)
[15:15] <FurBall> yes.. remember, IF you are testing a number Ie: if ($week == 3) is VERY different to if ($week = 3)
[15:15] <@TDavid> if($week =3) will always be true, does everyone understand why?
[15:16] <+spaceman_> no:) not fully
[15:16] <@TDavid> because ANY assignment will always be true
[15:16] <+spaceman_> k
[15:16] <+Itchy> becfause it's set $week = 3
[15:16] <+Teq> Tom's newbie booster
[15:16] <@TDavid> correct
[15:17] <FurBall> Yup Itchy!
[15:17] <+MadamZ> the = would make 3 but == would open it up other statments??
[15:17] <FurBall> the == would test to see if $week is equal to 3.
[15:17] <@TDavid> the two equals now make the expression a comparison instead of an assignment
[15:17] <+MadamZ> ik
[15:17] <+MadamZ> ok that is
[15:18] <@TDavid> but as furball mentioned the only time you use the two equals is when comparing numbers
[15:18] <FurBall> YES... :-)
[15:18] <@TDavid> for strings you use:  eq
[15:18] <FurBall> doing this: if ($name == "spaceman") will cause you to get a internal server error.
[15:19] <@TDavid> why?
[15:19] <FurBall> because it is a syntax error...
[15:19] <@TDavid> not you, furball!
[15:19] <@TDavid> hehe
[15:19] <FurBall> SORRY. :-) *d'OH
[15:19] * @TDavid takes away furball's cookie
[15:20] <+Itchy> lol
[15:20] <@TDavid> but do you folks understand WHY it is a syntax error?
[15:20] <+Itchy> because space man not a number
[15:20] <@TDavid> this is important because when all you see is a 500 error it is important to be able to find these bugs in your code
[15:20] <+MadamZ> yelp
[15:20] <@TDavid> good :)
[15:21] <FurBall> Great!
[15:21] <+Itchy> you mean like forgeting a ";"
[15:21] <@TDavid> correct
[15:21] <FurBall> That too. :-)
[15:21] <FurBall> a tip here.
[15:21] <FurBall> For remembering when to use eq and ==
[15:21] <@TDavid> now let's find the bugs in the following code there are several of them ...
[15:21] <FurBall> if you have to use a ' or " after the operator, use the eq otherwise use ==
[15:21] <@TDavid> if($name ne "itchy") { $cookie = 'chocolate chip' } else { $cookie = 'oatmeal; }
[15:22] <@TDavid> What are the errors:  if($name ne "itchy") { $cookie = 'chocolate chip' } else { $cookie = 'oatmeal; }
[15:22] <+Itchy> ne >eq
[15:22] <@TDavid> that is one, correct
[15:22] <+Itchy> 'chocolate cookie';
[15:23] <+Itchy> 'oatmeal';
[15:23] <+Itchy> eslif
[15:23] <@TDavid> what are the errors?
[15:23] <@TDavid> 1. ne - should be eq
[15:24] <@TDavid> 2. missing terminator after 'chocolate chip';
[15:24] <+Itchy> ne needs to be eq next is missing ";" else needs to be elsif
[15:24] <FurBall> correct on the ne and missing ';' but not the elsif...
[15:24] <FurBall> why not?
[15:24] <+Itchy> otameal missing ending'
[15:25] <FurBall> correct.
[15:25] <+Itchy> it's perl and not cgi
[15:25] <@TDavid> 3. oatmeal missing closing quote 'oatmeal';
[15:26] <FurBall> are there any other errors in the code?
[15:26] <@TDavid> Missing brackets are a common error too, but I didn't omit one of those in the buggy code above
[15:26] <+Itchy> case of name
[15:26] <@TDavid> very good! :)
[15:26] <@TDavid> why is this a mistake?
[15:26] <+Itchy> itchy does not = Itchy
[15:27] <@TDavid> because ... ?
[15:27] <FurBall> Why?
[15:27] <+Itchy> it's not a regular
[15:27] <+Itchy> expression
[15:27] <@TDavid> nope
[15:27] <@TDavid> anybody else have a guess?
[15:27] <@TDavid> i mentioned why above
[15:28] <+Itchy> because abousolute
[15:28] <+spaceman_> becasue its case sensitive
[15:28] <FurBall> and you alluded to it Itchy in what was wrong with it.
[15:28] <FurBall> correct spaceman
[15:28] <@TDavid> unix is caSe SeNsItiVe ... therefore 'itchy' does not equal "Itchy"
[15:28] <@TDavid> these type of bugs in code are extremely difficult to find
[15:29] <FurBall> amen... :-)
[15:29] <+Itchy> thats why we have search and replace :-) hehe
[15:29] <FurBall> LOL
[15:29] <@TDavid> because perl will not throw a 500 over these type of errors
[15:29] <@TDavid> great point :)
[15:30] <@TDavid> ok are we ready to move onto the logical NOT ?
[15:30] <@TDavid> we've talked about comparing for a condition, but how about comparing AGAINST a condition
[15:31] <@TDavid> IE. what if we want to see if spaceman_ is NOT eating a fudge brownie?
[15:31] <+MadamZ> if($name eq "Itchy") {$cookie ='chocolate chip';}
[15:31] <+MadamZ> sorry is this right
[15:31] <FurBall> yes it is MadamZ
[15:31] <@TDavid> yes, that is correct
[15:31] <+Itchy> $good= "Good Morning" if ($hour < 12);
[15:32] <+Itchy> is that against?
[15:32] <@TDavid> no, just a different way of writing the expression
[15:32] <+Itchy> ;-(
[15:32] <FurBall> no, that's an advanced way of saying if ($hour <12) {$good = "good Morning"; }
[15:32] <@TDavid> like the same as saying:
[15:33] <@TDavid> i will goto the store if my car has gas
[15:33] <@TDavid> my car has gas so I'm going to the store
[15:33] <+Itchy> ok
[15:33] <FurBall> we already know how to test if something is EQUAL. What is the opposite of EQUAL?
[15:34] <+Itchy> less then
[15:34] <+Itchy> or more then
[15:34] <FurBall> No
[15:34] <+spaceman_> not equal
[15:34] <+MadamZ> !=
[15:34] <@TDavid> IE. what if we want to see if spaceman_ is NOT eating a fudge brownie?  How would the code look?
[15:34] <FurBall> bingo spaceman. :-)
[15:34] <+MadamZ> I think
[15:34] <FurBall> and bingo MadamZ. :-)
[15:34] <@TDavid> numbers: != strings: ne
[15:35] <FurBall> so we want to see if spaceman 's cookie is NOT EQUAL to a fudge brownie...
[15:35] <@TDavid> can a number be a string?
[15:35] <+MadamZ> no
[15:35] <@TDavid> anybody else?
[15:36] <FurBall> Anyone? :-)
[15:37] <+Itchy> lost
[15:38] <@TDavid> $number1 = '4'; $number2 = 4; $total = $number1 + $number2; print $total;
[15:38] <+MadamZ> modify ne is to check strings?
[15:38] <FurBall> yes, ne is used to check if 2 strings are not equal to each other.
[15:39] <@TDavid> itchy, im trying to show that numbers and strings are two separate entities and mixing them together can have undesireable results
[15:39] <+Itchy> ok i'm looking
[15:39] <@TDavid> 4 + '4' does not equal 8
[15:39] <@TDavid> it equals 5 ... or does it?
[15:40] <+Itchy> still ='s 4 ?
[15:41] <+MadamZ> + adds amount 1 to amount 2 but what is '4'
[15:41] <+MadamZ> would'nt we have to determine '4'
[15:42] <FurBall> how can a string have a numeric value?
[15:42] <FurBall> does a string have a numeric value?
[15:43] <+Itchy> does this have to do with rhs?
[15:43] *** MadamZ (java@208.8.133.GD869=) quit (QUIT: User exited)
[15:44] <@TDavid> any value in a variable is true (1) .. any empty value is false (0)
[15:45] <@TDavid> perl will take care of numbers themselves in quotes or not in quotes, was my point
[15:45] <@TDavid> but 4 + '4 days' does not equal 8
[15:45] <@TDavid> this is where we really need to go with it, because 4 + '4' still equals 8
[15:46] *** MadamZ (java@208.8.133.OM576=) joined #topniche
[15:46] <FurBall> w/b MadamZ
[15:46] *** FurBall sets mode +v +MadamZ
[15:46] <+MadamZ> Kids Sorry
[15:47] <+Itchy> 4+'4days doesn't =8 because of the numbers and charaters together of '4days'?
[15:47] <FurBall> does everyone understand this concept?
[15:47] <@TDavid> technically it doesn't, but we don't want to derail too much here
[15:47] <@TDavid> perl has built in functionality to strip away the numbers from a string
[15:48] <@TDavid> other languages often do not
[15:48] <FurBall> the concept being that you can't mix numbers and strings.
[15:48] *** Teq (java@206.42.161.h38=) quit (QUIT: User exited)
[15:48] <+MadamZ> Baby is going ape again catch you friday
[15:48] <FurBall> K... see you then MadamZ... andif you have questions, please feel free to ask them on the board.
[15:48] <+Itchy> bye;-?(
[15:48] <@TDavid> we'll go back to the original question before I went down this admittedly confusing road hehe :)
[15:48] <FurBall> :-)
[15:48] <FurBall> We aren't leaving itchy
[15:49] <+Itchy> cool
[15:49] <@TDavid> 12 more minutes to go, we are talking about how to determine NOT equal
[15:50] <@TDavid> so if we want to make sure spaceman_ is NOT eating a fudge brownie?
[15:50] <@TDavid> how do we go about doing it?
[15:50] <FurBall> what does the code look like?
[15:51] *** spaceman_ (spaceman_1@64.228.106.Ya18=) quit (QUIT: User exited)
[15:51] <+Itchy> if spaceman=fugde brownie eq chcoclate chip type deal?
[15:52] <+Itchy> i'm not a fast typer
[15:52] <FurBall> but we want to see if he's NOT eating a fudge brownie... (i.e. NOT equal)
[15:52] <FurBall> so it's similar....
[15:52] <+Itchy> eq =en then?
[15:52] <FurBall> ne
[15:53] <+Itchy> ne right hehe
[15:53] <FurBall> :-)
[15:54] <+Itchy> so if spaceman = fugde bronie en 'chocolate chip'
[15:55] <+Itchy> makes him have a chocolate chip one right?
[15:55] <FurBall> No... pretend that we already know that we're talking about spaceman and we have to test his $cookie now.
[15:56] <+Itchy> if $cookie=fudge bronie en 'chocolate chip'
[15:57] <FurBall> we want to know if $cookie is not equal to fudge brownie. If it isn't, then give him a fudge brownie.
[15:58] <+Itchy> if $cookie != fudge brownie en 'fudge brownie
[15:58] <FurBall> != is for numbers. :-)
[15:59] <FurBall> first, let's test and see if $cookie is not equal to fudge brownie... that would look something like if ( ... )
[15:59] <+Itchy> != change to en and en change tp eq
[16:00] <FurBall> Like this: if ($cookie ne 'fudge brownie')
[16:00] <FurBall> this is your test to see if he's not eating a fudge brownie.
[16:00] <+Itchy> pk
[16:00] <+Itchy> ok
[16:00] <FurBall> now, how do we give him one?
[16:01] <+Itchy> ($cookie='fudge brownie')
[16:01] <FurBall> there are 3 problems with that... you are very close though...
[16:01] <FurBall> what are they?
[16:02] <+Itchy> elsif ($cookie =' fudge brownie)
[16:02] <FurBall> You don't need the elsif. :-)
[16:02] <FurBall> nor an else.
[16:02] <+Itchy> missing ;
[16:02] <+Itchy> after bracket
[16:02] <FurBall> perfect.
[16:03] <+Itchy> does the ' need to be a "?
[16:03] <FurBall> so we have now ($cookie = 'fudge brownie';) Still 2 problems.. (actually, they are 1)
[16:03] <FurBall> an if statement looks like this: if ( ... ) { ... }
[16:03] <+Itchy> wrong brackets
[16:03] <FurBall> Yup!
[16:03] *** MadamZ (java@208.8.133.OM576=) quit (QUIT: User exited)
[16:04] <FurBall> so what does the final code look like?
[16:05] <+Itchy> if ($cookie ne 'fudge brownie') {$cookie = 'fudge brownie';}
[16:05] <FurBall> that's it!
[16:05] <+Itchy> cool
[16:05] <+Itchy> I'm learning
[16:05] <FurBall> Yup! :-)
[16:05] <FurBall> Good deal!
[16:05] <+Itchy> a little one on one hehe
[16:05] <FurBall> :-)
[16:06] <FurBall> Here ends the chat. :-)
[16:06] <FurBall> We'll pick up the rest of it on friday.
[16:06] <FurBall> If in the mean time, you have any questions, PLEASE post them on the board.
[16:06] <+Itchy> ok my mom just pulled it too see you friday :-) and thanks
[16:06] <FurBall> You are welcome!
[16:07] *** Itchy (itchmaster@24.70.215.1O46=) quit (QUIT: User exited)
[16:07] *** FurBall sets mode -o TDavid
[16:07] *** FurBall sets mode -o FurBall
Session Close: Tue Feb 27 16:07:53 2001