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<TDavid> hello kahman :)
<Kahman> whats up tdavis
<Kahman> david
*** TDavid sets mode: +vv Kahman venturi
<TDavid> just getting back from lunch
<TDavid> i dont' know why they keep having to play that stuff about the bodies in GA during lunchtime lol
<TDavid> they should like lay off all anti-food stories at lunch
<venturi> lol
<Kahman> this is very true!
<Kahman> not something you want to hear while eating a sloppy roast beef sandwich
<venturi> I was half listening to the TV yesterday afternoon and heard "More Bodies Found in GA Crematorium! Details at 5" and was like Why is this news?
<venturi> hiya Kahman, btw. :)
<TDavid> something tells me we'll be talking about this on Friday, this is just beyond bizarre
<Kahman> whats up venturi
<Kahman> whats the little green spider mean?
<venturi> not much. trying to take the php course at lightspeed to make sure i've got my constructs etc. in order. lol
<Kahman> same here@
<Kahman> when out and got a book this weekend, trying to do 1 lessen a day at least in it
<Kahman> Sams Teach Yourself PHP4 in 24 Hours
<TDavid> these to-do assignments are so important and not that many people have done the later to-do assignments for the first php course
<venturi> :-)) I'm pretty familiar with Unix shell scripting and have been doing a bunch of perl hacking, so am thinking I can pick up php pretty quickly. :)
<TDavid> they aren't just fluff like some to-do things, they have importance in later items
<venturi> I'm going to do all the assignments, tho'. :-)
<Kahman> this will be my first language
<TDavid> by doing them, you gain an understanding of *why* which can be as important as *how*
<venturi> that is very true TDavid.
<Kahman> i am talking about the lessons in the book i bought david, not the ones in the course
<venturi> been programming full-time since '89 and on-and-off since '78
<TDavid> personlly i'm not a big fan of those sams books
<Kahman> geez, i was BORN in 78! hahaha
<venturi> LOL
<TDavid> lots of bugs in their code :(
<Kahman> really? any reason why?
<Kahman> ehh, that sux
<TDavid> i don't know if they have a lousy editor or what
<venturi> too many revisions. :-)
<Kahman> which ones would you suggest?
<TDavid> i do know that it is easy, very easy, maybe too easy to make mistakes transferring code to a tutorial
<TDavid> i recommend all the visual quickstart books and there is a couple other books in the script school store which i like on php
<TDavid> http://www.scriptschool.com/store/
<TDavid> core php is a great reference book, but not such a good how-to book
<Kahman> what do you mean them having a lousy editor? its just a book without a cd, so im just reading it doing the lessons in my own editor
<Kahman> checking it out now
<venturi> I have never had much success using tutorial books. I've learned probably 95% of the languages I know/knew because I had a project requiring them. I get *real* intimate with programming reference manuals. LOL
<TDavid> the wrox programming book for php is becoming a bit dated, but it has some good how-to stuff in there
<TDavid> I mean editor as in publishing editor, you know the guy with the glasses (or gal) who reads through the manuscript and pulls out errors and things
<Kahman> gotcha gotcha
<TDavid> you raise a good point though
<TDavid> i will usually say IDE or text editor for other editors during the course stuff
<venturi> hehe, I've got UltraEdit fired up and doing week 2 of php as we chat. LOL
<venturi> TEVINATOR!
<venturi> lol
<TDavid> i've been using the php ide once in awhile but i saw that it was picked up by commercial devel company
<Tev> Hiya Venturi!!
<TDavid> looks like it might be going commercial
<Kahman> what is ide?
<TDavid> zend has a nice IDE from what I've heard, but I haven't ever used it personally
<TDavid> Integrated Development Environment
<venturi> interactive development environment
<venturi> or integrated, yeah. :)
<Kahman> ok
<TDavid> it's like a desktop application which helps you with the code
<TDavid> one of these days i'll probably write one for script school
<TDavid> it will be very crude, but intentionally so
<venturi> highlights and colorcodes syntax, some have macros built in to complete block statements, etc.
<Kahman> gotcha
<TDavid> have all the course lessons as reference and stuff
<Tev> damn, brb gonna try the sattelite connection
<Kahman> that would be cool
<venturi> I got turned onto using UltraEdit when I took a big project using lisp/scheme/monk
<venturi> wb Tev
<Tev> tx!
<TDavid> i have been working on the script school library for over a year now
<TDavid> it will be a very cool place for webmasters to get specific examples on code and real world usage
<TDavid> my problem is i get 5 minutes here, 30 minutes there, 2 hours there, and never enough time to pound through and just finish it
<venturi> that would be kick butt, TD. Reference tools are a must have. :-)
<Kahman> too much to do, not enough time
<TDavid> i see a lot of function references and stuff but i get frustrated sometimes because i cannot figure out a real world usage for them
<Tev> I hear that TDavid! lol
<TDavid> hello tev, btw :))
<Tev> Hiya!
<venturi> not much use for "hello world". LOL
<Kahman> lol
<TDavid> hmmm, well it looks like it might just be a small group of us today :) I have 1:58
<TDavid> I'll wait a few more minutes
<TDavid> I've been logging all of this
<Kahman> 401 on my watch
<TDavid> try typing !date will ya?
*** jvastine has joined #scriptschool
*** TDavid sets mode: +v jvastine
<venturi> !date
<TDavid> 3,0 Tue Feb 19 13:59:54 2002
<Tev> !date
<TDavid> 3,0 Tue Feb 19 13:59:55 2002
<Kahman> !date
<TDavid> 3,0 Tue Feb 19 13:59:58 2002
<TDavid> the ssjanitor is not here, so we get that instead lol
<Tev> hehe
<TDavid> hi jvastine! :)) thank you for coming
<venturi> hiya jvastine!
<jvastine> hi Td & class!
<Tev> Hmmm, radio not up TDavid? can't seem to connect to the 56k feed
<TDavid> no radio for the tech chats, just IRC
<Tev> Doh! I forgot, lol
<TDavid> this way i can type lol, i'm just not very good at doing both
<Tev> Having one of those days
<TDavid> i tried doing that for the old tech chats we used to have on tuesdays at noon, but it didn't go so well
<TDavid> alright, has everybody got their week #1 course text printed out to make notes on?
<Kahman> do now
<venturi> printer is broke, but I've got my editor I can type comments into. :-)
<TDavid> I'm going to give you some of the notes that didn't make it into the text lol ... as i was telling venturi earlier the text for these courses often starts out very large and i go back in and prune a lot
<venturi> dog hair and sheet feeders do not mix well.
<TDavid> something i learned from my "trying to break into the horror novel" market
<Tev> one sec. brb puters freaking out
<TDavid> they take 100,000 words and make them 75,000
<TDavid> or 60,000
<TDavid> they took 125,000 words of mine and pruned it to 70,000
<TDavid> "you don't need that scene" ... "why is that in there" ... "get rid of that"
<venturi> hehehe, damn publishing editors. that's where the errors come from.
<TDavid> so the chance for you to ask questions about maybe things I should have left things in comes with these tech chats
<TDavid> and from the radio recap on Friday
*** Tev has joined #scriptschool
*** TDavid sets mode: +v Tev
<Tev> I'm having fun with internet connection day
<TDavid> i don't really know how much to cut out, so students can help me by pointing out where something might not be clear
<venturi> so it seems! :)
<TDavid> the intention is to be concise, but yet clear ;)
<TDavid> so let's start with the very first thing: what is a clicks out script
<TDavid> i think nobody has problem with that, yes?
<Tev> Nope
<Kahman> nope
<venturi> i'm with ya
<TDavid> i notice from a few of the to-do assignments that there is some similar features to a stats program
<venturi> I saw that too in reading today
<TDavid> but that is not really what we are trying to create here (a full blown stats program)
<jvastine> ok
<Kahman> ok
<TDavid> while a similar concept is there in both, one counts in the other counts out
<TDavid> and a stats program will typically count at the server level every file hit
<TDavid> we are interested in surfers with a clicks out script
<TDavid> not necessarily files
<Kahman> it could be implemented into a stats program after it is finished though right?
<TDavid> well reviewing the numbers that the clicks out tracks, yes
<jvastine> I would think so.
<TDavid> we will be covering the stats in week #5 and week #6 in greater depth when we build the admin area
<Kahman> cool
<jvastine> sounds good
<TDavid> but i wanted to make sure to clarify that the important thing we are concerned about mainly is the surfer
<TDavid> and what links that surfer is clicking
<jvastine> true
<Kahman> meaning what they are clicking on my site
<TDavid> because in an IN-stats program there might be files called with no surfer ever coming to your site
<Kahman> gotcha
<venturi> "where did they go and did it potentially make me $$$"
<TDavid> exactly :)
<TDavid> If time is available I'll share some of my secrets to hiding files where nobody can find them hehe ;)
<venturi> hiding files?
<TDavid> advanced stuff for week 6+
<Kahman> the php files?
<TDavid> files that people are calling that you don't want them to call
<Tev> Ok, an IN-stats prog uses the log to find what files were called by a particular surfer correct?
<TDavid> and no, it doesn't involve htaccess
<TDavid> yes, tev
<Kahman> btw, how long is the tech chat?
<TDavid> very immense logs that one needs to grep through
<TDavid> 1 hour kahman
<Kahman> ok, thanks
<TDavid> then 2 hours on friday for recap
<TDavid> hopefully enough time between those 3 hours to answer all questions
<Kahman> should be
<TDavid> if not, then there is the board, and please post any questions if not understand and we don't get to it in these chats
<TDavid> ok, the pros and cons of using a clicks out script...
<Kahman> ok
<TDavid> pro - you find out where your surfer is going
<TDavid> con -?
<Tev> Uses resources?
<TDavid> yes
<Kahman> programs might not let you use them
<TDavid> yes
<venturi> this is kinda both ... alows you to see how many clicks went to sponsor X
<TDavid> there is a big negative which might not be so obvious
<Kahman> which is?
<TDavid> error
<TDavid> program error
<TDavid> now hit does not go to intended location
<TDavid> server down, etc
<venturi> misdirection you mean?
<Tev> or like a glitch?
<TDavid> basic link goes out, but link through script must go through script first
<TDavid> so if script does not fire then the link does not go through
<Kahman> gotcha gotcha
<TDavid> so instead of ever making it to sponsor, it never leaves your site
<Kahman> i had a problem with a cgi script that did that, screwed up and so did all my links
<venturi> ah. i was wondering how this was going to mesh with my banner rotation script.
<jvastine> bad!
<TDavid> so while i will recommend doing this, i will also recommend at all times to TEST the links and do load testing
<TDavid> load testing will be covered in week #6
<Kahman> gotcha
<TDavid> it would suck if you did a bunch of tgping and your script went haywire and nothing got credited
<TDavid> now for the good side ... the marketing angle
<Kahman> i would have to agree, that woudl SUCK
<TDavid> you can systematically figure out which positions on pages work best
<venturi> guage how well your marketing is doing. page vs page etc.
<TDavid> there is no end to the amount of testing you can do
<Kahman> which banner/tet links do best
<TDavid> though the inherent danger is going overboard
<TDavid> exactly kahman
<TDavid> so i would recommend when doing this that you don't make your scope too big
<Kahman> what would you consider going overboard?
<TDavid> in other words, don't plan to track every link on every page going everywhere
<TDavid> plan to track sales pages or specific sponsors or specific people you trade with
<TDavid> on specific pages with specific people
<Kahman> can i ask why? just too much info?
<jvastine> only outbound clicks
<TDavid> if you notice on scriptschool you will see a good example of what i'm talking about
<TDavid> note how some of the links are direct links and some have a code
<TDavid> some are tracked, some go directly out
<TDavid> http://www.scriptschool.com/
<TDavid> scroll down to the course
<TDavid> i can tell you that this page has sent x number of clicks
<TDavid> to each department
<TDavid> the summary page, the messageboard, etc
<TDavid> do you see the code?
<Kahman> yeah, i see it
<venturi> the click.php?code links right?
<TDavid> that is using an ID scheme, yes
<jvastine> ok
<TDavid> we'll discuss ID scheme and non-ID scheme to track clicks out in week #3
<TDavid> when we work on building the click redirector
<TDavid> there are multiple ways you can do this, but to avoid confusion we'll probably concentrate on just one
<TDavid> there are pros and cons for each scheme
<TDavid> ok, any other questions on pros and cons of using clicks out script?
<TDavid> or what it is?
<jvastine> not here
<venturi> nope
<Tev> nope
<Kahman> nope
<TDavid> Materials needed ... does everyone understand what tools you need to write the code?
<venturi> yep
<jvastine> yes
<TDavid> let's run through them for the sake of the workshop logs
<Kahman> yep
<Kahman> ok
<TDavid> 1. text editor
<Tev> yes
<TDavid> what else?
<venturi> PHP installed on server
<Kahman> php installed on your server
<venturi> a browser? :)
<jvastine> ftp program
<TDavid> what type of host is the course text designed primarily for?
<Tev> unix
<Kahman> unix
<Tev> flavored anyway
<jvastine> apache
<TDavid> how do we find out if our host has PHP?
<Tev> <?
<Tev> // Does my host have PHP, and if so, what version?
<Tev> printf("My host is running PHP version %s", phpversion());
<Tev> ?>
<TDavid> great tev :)
<Kahman> damn, you typed that quick!
<Kahman> haha
<TDavid> why is knowing the version of PHP important?
<venturi> beat me to the copy-n-paste. lol
<venturi> function availbility
<TDavid> where can we find out what version a particular function in PHP was made available?
<jvastine> php.org
<Kahman> php.net
<Kahman> php.net/manual/en
<Tev> php.net
<Tev> hi hwyman
<TDavid> it's in the php manual text. It will show 3.3 >=4.0 or something like that
<hwyman> re all
<TDavid> hi hwyman :)
<Kahman> hey
<TDavid> here is a tip worth writing down and memorizing
<jvastine> hey hwyman
<venturi> hiya hwyman
<TDavid> before using *any* function you have never used before then check to make sure of version compatibility
<TDavid> especially new and somewhat rare functions
<TDavid> you'll save yourself some time and frustration
<TDavid> like trying to use sessions with php 3
<TDavid> I've been there and done that
<TDavid> try to write code to the least version when possible
<Kahman> ill remember that
<TDavid> if you want things to be portable, especially
<venturi> does php always spit out errors and line #'s to the browser? or is it like perl in that sometimes the script just doesn't work?
<TDavid> no, php is much more helpful with the parser and error messages than perl is
<venturi> i go into SSH sometimes to debug my perl to get the errors.
<TDavid> perl requires you to dig in deeper to find things out
<venturi> cool. :-)
<TDavid> it is not as friendly for debugging from the browser
<TDavid> however you can suppress errors in php and that is a good idea to do once you are done coding
<TDavid> you do not want the ugliness that you might have seen a couple days ago when netsurprise's db connection fail. There were errors everywhere
<TDavid> my fault, my code ;)
<Kahman> good one :-)
<TDavid> so just so I don't sound hypocritical :)
<venturi> no need to spit error messages & server paths to a browser if the server hicups. :)
<Tev> Ah, I was just about to ask why :)
<TDavid> it did give me a good opportunity to run around and find the errors and patch them up lol
<venturi> LOL
<Tev> lol
<TDavid> but that isn't really what you want other people seeing
<venturi> brb
<jvastine> confuses the surfer
<Kahman> this is true
<TDavid> it is also a good idea for the need to have backup plans when databases cannot connect
<TDavid> we'll discuss file systems in greater depth and the pros and cons of using a database next week
<jvastine> true
<TDavid> if you database your site and the database fails then you are royally screwed
<TDavid> so the best general plan is to have some combination of databased content with static content
<hwyman> .em nods
<TDavid> i like hourly or daily or weekly or monthly updates myself
<Kahman> and a way to back the database up as well, correct?
<TDavid> or updates when a surfer initiates some action if you have a frequent enough traffic page
<TDavid> i launch scripts instead of using cron by page hits on certain pages
<TDavid> if you have a consistent enough traffic pattern you can simulate cron jobs without the need to schedule them
<TDavid> i also use cron of course, but then that is something for another day too
<Kahman> your talking about crons to backup the database?
<venturi> :-)
<TDavid> crons to backup data is a very good strategy
<TDavid> crons to archive the data in some "safe" form, too
<TDavid> of course i have desktop ftp programs which go into my server launch scripts and copy files to my desktop too
<TDavid> high encryption stuff
<TDavid> one can never be to safe about backups with their data
<TDavid> too safe
<Tev> OK, I'll be the idiot, what's cron?
<TDavid> cron is a scheduler for events on unix, tev
<TDavid> similar to microsoft scheduler
<TDavid> it will run programs at set times
<Tev> Ah!
<TDavid> so if you wanted your clicks out stats to archive hourly you might launch a cron to run a script to do this
<Kahman> like ive got a cron tab updating this page every 30 min (i think) so the hits stay current, http://www.amateurreview.com/toplist/index.html
<TDavid> real time stats for an admin is not very expensive, but real time stats for a group of people to see can be very expensive if the file layout is not right
<Kahman> cron job
<TDavid> i try to convince clients not to go real time unless absolutely neccessary
<TDavid> some sort of caching almost always makes good sense
<TDavid> it can be 10 minute delay or 30 minute or 60 minutes
<TDavid> having a program sitting around crunching data constantly is not exactly good to the server
<TDavid> you want fast page loads so the surfer buys stuff
<venturi> and if you're on a virtual host, your neighbors won't like you if your crontab fires every 30seconds.
<TDavid> if you are on a dedicated server you can control the server environment which is very nice. For those on a virtual host, it can suck if you have someone parsing every html page for SSI and running some expensive cpu perl script
<TDavid> this is why it is good to get on the good side of your host so if you are on a virtual host that they put you with a low script / cron server ;)
<TDavid> piss your host off and end up on a server with everybody going script crazy hehe
<Tev> lol
<Kahman> lol
<TDavid> just something to think about ... because it isn't always traffic which dictates page loading speed
<hwyman> heh that would suck
<Kahman> ill stick with dedicated servers :-)
<TDavid> i talked to a guy the other day who was doing 5000 hits a day and having resource problems
<venturi> I hacked my tgp script specifically because everytime it sorted the list it was doing I/O and using system commands to do the sort.
<Tev> got that righ Kahman
<TDavid> of course he was using a series of scripts with problems and no timeouts
<TDavid> you can only run so many scripts amok before the server gets nasty hehe
<TDavid> so let's talk about support for this course
<TDavid> this chat is open 24/7 365
<TDavid> good place to specifically meet with others taking the course
<TDavid> i'm here once in awhile, but it's rare. I'm going to try and be around a bit more after this friday's show
<TDavid> best place is to post questions on the messageboard
<Kahman> cool
<TDavid> but if i'm here and my nick says "TDavid" i'm accessible and willing to answer questions
<TDavid> if it says "TD-anything else" then i'm probably not available but nearby
<TDavid> i'll tell you the code to get my attention
<TDavid> but please don't abuse it
<Kahman> can i ask who hippyswhore is?
<TDavid> any word with "TD" in it will flash my cursor
<TDavid> that is willyb's bot which has a few php triggers programmed into it
<Kahman> cool
<Tev> cool
<TDavid> please do not send me private messages during the radio shows (this one is for the logs only)
<TDavid> i have a hard enough time paying attention to kit's private messages lol
<hwyman> ok
<TDavid> and reading the chat
<Tev> LOL
<venturi> hehehe
<TDavid> please do NOT email me lol
<TDavid> i get 200-300 emails per day easily that aren't spam
<TDavid> and spam ranges from 300-1000
<jvastine> ouch
<TDavid> so when someone emails me i often will dump into a "questions" bin
<TDavid> unless it is a customer and then I try to help them
<Kahman> sounds like the best thing to do is stick to posting on the board then!
<TDavid> yes, kahman, the boards are the best way to get a question answered, which is my point
<jvastine> where everyone can help.
<Kahman> yep
<TDavid> the way i feel, i give away enough away, so i rely on other students to help each other and to help me so that i can continue to write more courses
<Kahman> so you post this whole chat online on scriptschool?
<Kahman> in archives?
<TDavid> yes
<Kahman> cool
<venturi> just the thought process of typing a question can trigger an answer sometimes too.
<Tev> And every one can learn from the questions and answers on the board
<TDavid> However if anybody wants any one-on-one time with me, I am available for consulting
<TDavid> not a pitch to try to make extra money, just to let people know that I'm willing to do that if anybody needs extra, extra, extra help
<Kahman> cool
* venturi needs help, but likely not covered by your consulting services.
<TDavid> ok, now let's talk about the structure of questions
<jvastine> ok
<TDavid> did anybody think it was weird for me to go into how to form a question?
<jvastine> no
<TDavid> i know nobody reading this course is dumb
<venturi> not me.
<Tev> nope
<Kahman> nope
<TDavid> questions I get asked sometimes though are very ignorant
<hwyman> no
<TDavid> i can't help someone who doesn't put things in a way that are easy to help
<TDavid> so if you get stuck on something, the most logical way is to spend time forming the question so that a monkey could answer your questoin
<TDavid> explain what you did to create the problem in detail
<TDavid> explain what you tried to do to fix the problem
<TDavid> show the relevant code
<jvastine> like debug 300000 lines of saghetti code
<TDavid> provide a link to the code that is bugged
<TDavid> provide *relevant* code, not all code
<TDavid> so too much information can be troublesome too. But I'd rather see too much information than not enough
<TDavid> this is my personal preference here after doing 5 of these courses over the last almost 2 years
<TDavid> also, if someone else helps you, then thank them (i'm not talking about me) i'm talking about other students
<TDavid> of course i liked to be thanked once in awhile
<TDavid> you can thank me by throwing up a link a webmaster area
<Kahman> THANKS MAAAANN
<TDavid> it's amazing i get asked questions, right from people and i goto their site and see every link but mine
<TDavid> so i'm supposed to help you but you can't even give me a link on a buried page?
<TDavid> i guarantee those calls for help get ignored :)
<venturi> hehe
<TDavid> when I say "you" i don't mean "you guys" i'm saying this for the logs
<TDavid> and those reading this in the logs know who they are ;))
<TDavid> doesn't have to be front page banner, but a text link on a buried webmaster page would be nice :))
<TDavid> ok, let's review the "i don't want to ask a question because i might look stupid"
<TDavid> this is a common one
<TDavid> it's a reason some people don't post on the boards at all
<TDavid> what do you think about that?
<Kahman> no question is stupid
<jvastine> the only stupid question is the one never asked
<venturi> stupid is not asking
<Kahman> someone else might be wondering the same thing and not want to say it
<Tev> ditto to all the above
<TDavid> the problem with not asking a question that I have is I don't know that you don't understand
<TDavid> and if i don't know you don't understand, I can't try to make it clearer
<TDavid> i don't mind questions like: "i don't understand what a clicks out script is"
<TDavid> or "i don't understand line 13, can you explain it a different way"
<venturi> i wonder how many kids have flunked an assignment, or an entire course, because they were discouraged from asking a simple question?
<TDavid> but going away frustrated because one does not understand is not good for either the course itself or the person walking away
<jvastine> true
<TDavid> well tev mentioned the word "idiot" above because he didn't know what cron was. I didn't know what cron was at one time
<TDavid> i'm glad you asked that tev :))
<hwyman> nods
<TDavid> and there is a helluva lot i don't know now
<TDavid> that you guys know
<TDavid> so you can probably teach me something in this course
<TDavid> i have learned something new with every new course and that is another reason I keep doing them
<Kahman> i just barely learned what a cron job was when i got that php toplist script that needed it
<TDavid> it isn't just for others, it is for me too
<TDavid> I have the opposite problem many times it seems that people assume I know things that I do not
<TDavid> lol and in doing so i have trouble getting help
<TDavid> sysadmins will give me root and tell me to do it
<TDavid> assuming that i know how lol
<TDavid> when in many cases i do not
<venturi> OMG!
<TDavid> i am not a server tech, i make no bones about that. I do not do server administration, i pay others to do that for me
<venturi> i usually turn down access to root. :)
<TDavid> i in fact only know a handful of useful unix commands ;)
<venturi> there is no "undo" in Unix. LOL
<TDavid> so if you are reading this log or thinking to yourself, damn, i know a lot about unix then you got that up on me :))
<hwyman> thinks he knows to much landscape, and not enough unix
<TDavid> but my point is that you do not need to know everything about everything to help others
<TDavid> ok, last thing and i'm a bit over the time but here goes
<TDavid> the layout/design
<TDavid> we will cover this in great and very detailed depth in course #2
<TDavid> we will build the actual frameworks for 3 scripts that you will use
<TDavid> admin.php, setup.php and click.php
<TDavid> the names are pretty self explanatory, but i'll show you the structure in the text and break down every line of code in each framework
<TDavid> you guys have done a very nice job in the to-do assignments coming up with wish lists for the clicks out scripts
<TDavid> i am not really able to find much to constructively criticize
<TDavid> kahman, i'll add comments on yours before the day is out
<Kahman> cool, thanks
<TDavid> you guys understand the idea of doing these layout designs?
<Kahman> ill have you link up on my site before the day is out as well :-)
<hwyman> yes\
<Kahman> yes
<venturi> absolutely
<jvastine> yes
<TDavid> thank you kahman :)
<Tev> totally
<TDavid> i believe script school is a tremendous resource for webmasters and sometimes i become a little discouraged
<TDavid> just being honest you know ;)
<venturi> why is that?
<TDavid> i don't need scripting help lol
<jvastine> It is a great resource!
<Tev> Damn straight it si
<TDavid> well when i go to some "major resource sites" and don't see a link or they try to force me into putting up a huge banner for them
<TDavid> it's kind of like we are content, you know
<jvastine> and as webmasters, we should do all we can to assure that this is ongoing!
<venturi> ah. but scriptschool is NOT a content kind of thing. It's a helping hand. :)
<Kahman> http://www.amateurreview.com/resources.html
<TDavid> thanks kahman :))
<venturi> http://freeporn.smutclinic.com/webmasters/
<venturi> :)
<TDavid> i don't mean to sound like a whiner or anything lol :))
<Kahman> np
<TDavid> I saw a course the other day -- php course $1500
<Kahman> least i can do for a free class in php
<Tev> And your not
<Kahman> see!
<TDavid> i'd wager that the courses at script school are worth that $1500, so it is relative in some way maybe lol :))
<venturi> yep $1500 is pretty standard for those 3 to 5 day courses that leave you more confused then you started. lol
<TDavid> now in summary here, layout wwise
<TDavid> and the gift certificate thing
<TDavid> I'm going to choose what i believe is the best to-do assignment every week and give a gift certificate to the student
<TDavid> i'm going to do it during the radio show on friday
<Kahman> sweet
<Tev> Cool : )!
<TDavid> if the person isn't present at the chat, i'll give it to someone else who does show up for the chat
<Kahman> how much of a certificate?
<venturi> that is very cool. just noticed that today while perusing the forum.
<TDavid> i realize this might prohibit some students who can't make the show
<Kahman> ill make sure im there then!
<TDavid> $50 to start, but we might increase that
<Kahman> sweet
<TDavid> we'll see how many people get in the course
<Tev> Damn!
<TDavid> bosshawg is going to split the cost with us
<jvastine> damn!
<TDavid> we have a kitty of money that comes in from script school for prizes and stuff
<Kahman> how many total do you have right now?
<TDavid> something that people might not realize is that i reinvest heavily back into script school
<Kahman> he's a good guy, hooked up some ageoath sites for me earlier
<TDavid> students in the course?
<TDavid> well you can check the board it looked like 20 or so last time i checked
<Kahman> yeah
<TDavid> which might seem small, but in reality that is best since the perl course
<TDavid> not as good as the first php course
<TDavid> but that one has been around since aug 2000
<TDavid> script school has 2500 enrolled students so that is a microcosm of those who will actually take the course over the next 1-2 years
<TDavid> it seems some do not like to "come out in public"
<TDavid> just like lurkers on messageboards
<TDavid> they read the material, and do the studies on their own
<TDavid> which is fine of course :)
<TDavid> i talked to a couple of people at internext who quoted passages from the course to me
<TDavid> yet i didn't see them posting or involved in the course
<Kahman> lol
<TDavid> so i know it is working, it is just sometimes the numbers don't seem to appear that way.
<venturi> i think folks taking the older courses many times think the message boards are over because it's not "the active" course.
<TDavid> actually there were three new assignments on the first php course today
<TDavid> i get notified when the to-do assignments are posted in folders
<jvastine> true, I know that I thought that venturi
<TDavid> which btw is important because assignments posted elsewhere i am not notified about
<Kahman> im might go back and take the first php course as well
<Tev> I know I am
<hwyman> i will go back and look
<TDavid> and this is another reason why i ask to post in those to-do folders
<TDavid> yes, you should, kahman
<venturi> I'm on week 2 of it. :)
<TDavid> you will see responses to assignments from me since aug of 2000
<TDavid> ;)
<jvastine> cool
<TDavid> so i am very dedicated to helping people learn this material
<TDavid> but it is a two way street, and that is why i'm going into detail in this course
<TDavid> about hooking up those who help you :))
<jvastine> play it forward!
<TDavid> for the logs, those who find value in this course can help by visiting: http://www.scriptschool.com/faq.phtml
<TDavid> and if any of you would like to someday TEACH a script school course, i am very open to this
<TDavid> we will pay for the course
<TDavid> and the rights to the course
<Kahman> i hope someday i get to that point! :-)
<TDavid> that's all i really have unless there are other questions from you guys?
<TDavid> i promise much more code next week
<TDavid> mostly introductory stuff this week
<Kahman> sounds good
<TDavid> unfortuantely a necessary evil for setup for the other 5
<venturi> looking forward to it!
<hwyman> wonders if an old hippy like myself will asorbed enough of this course to stay afloat hehe
<Kahman> thats understandable
<jvastine> no questions here...yet anyway!
<TDavid> hwyman, i know you can dig it :))
<Tev> So far I'm up with the program, lol
<hwyman> thanks TD
<TDavid> it is going to get more difficult each week
<TDavid> and it might get foggy, but if you stay with this and ask questions and stay involved and really try, i won't let you fall off the boat
<hwyman> i see that while looking through to past courses
<Kahman> thats is good to know
<TDavid> if i can do this -- a barely high school graduate d- student, you can do this ... and some of you probably better than me
<Kahman> i will definitely be in all the chats and on the board consistantly
<hwyman> but i am going to see this thing through to the end
<Tev> Me to
<jvastine> same here
<Kahman> thats kinda why im trying to get familiar with php while taking this course as well
<venturi> i'm here for the duration!
<TDavid> outstanding :))
<Kahman> well i need to get back to doing some work, good chatting with you all and ill see yall friday
<TDavid> see ya on friday :)
<venturi> take care Kahman
<jvastine> bye kahman
<hwyman> seeya Kahman
<Kahman> looking forward to your comments to my assignment david
<TD-workn> im heading back to debugging code and the phone lol
*** Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Feb 19 16:08:05 2002